Everybody Hates Pharma

Welcome to the pharma
sales and tech podcast.

Tune in to stay informed, inspired, and
connected with the world of pharma sales.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Hello, ladies and gentlemen today.

Here is your host Stefan
with Platforce here

and our podcast the Pharma Sales
and Tech podcast, where we interview

the best of the best in terms of
marketing and sales in the pharma world.

And today I have a
wonderful guest who finally,

I have someone doing marketing
because there's always sales,

sales, sales market access.

It's for me personally, it's
really, I have warm feelings.

I have fuzzy feelings because
I will be talking to Hazem

and say it, and he works for bioMérieux

and he is covering several
markets, as a marketing leader

about which I'm very excited to learn
about, his experience and learn from him.

So Hazem, welcome.

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Thank you.

Thank you, Stefan so much.

So happy to be here and so
excited for this podcast.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Awesome.

So listen, tell me more about your,
give me a little bit of an intro

about, your position in the company.

So like you're sort of targeting
several markets, right?

Like from, as I know you're
in Dubai, tell me more about

what you do and what sort of,

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Okay.

So now I'm marketing manager for
bioMérieux, you I'm responsible mainly

for a line called the molecular biology.

So by maybe it's a French
based company and it's a market

leader in the agnostic field.

So in microbiology and molecular biology

and all this field of let's say agnostic
covering let's say a huge region

of around 25 countries, which
is called Middle East, Turkey

and Russia and Middle East here.

It's a part of, let's say, Gulf,
Levant including Pakistan as

well from Asia and Caucasus area
and Turkey and Russia as well.

So yes, it's a big region, but
it's really exciting to work

with different you know, maturity
markets, different level of maturity.

You experience all level of, let's
say, marketing decrease of Strategy

implementation in each market.

It's marketed.

It's different than the other

So it's pretty exciting to work with
different region and with different

maturity grids in the in marketing
and in product adoption as well.

So before by milieu, I was working in
sanofi as well in pharmaceutical field

So I merged between pharmaceutical
and IVD which is in vitro diagnostic.

I was a marketing manager in sanofi
and before marketing manager, I

was a brand manager and before
that I was a project manager.

So I experienced a good career in Sanofi.

And before that I was in
AstraZeneca and the first

company I joined, it was Johnson.

So we started from Johnson,
AstraZeneca, Sanofi, and then

I decided to move to IVD companies after
COVID when all people know about diagnosis

now and the importance of diagnosis.

So I found that it's a good opportunity
to learn about this market and this yeah.

So about my job, it's mainly, it's
marketing strategy development.

So I'm developing the marketing
strategy for my cluster implementing

it executing it with the teams.

I have a team of two marketeers.

One in Russia and one in Turkey.

And as well, I'm collaborating
with all the stakeholders here

from sales medical compliance.

But the more point that the, or the,
let's say the extra point I added

to my career path in this industry,

which is IVD is that I'm doing
more and more with distributors.

So in pharma, we don't have
that much of distributor.

We have our sales team,
but now we have a more

of an influential leadership
also in distributors because most

of my area is covered by distributor
based model, except Russia and Turkey

was covered mainly by the US subsidiary.

So, yeah, it's exciting moving between
the two industries and experience

different level of marketing
and techniques in in my career.

Yeah.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
okay, this is really good insight.

So you mentioned something about
like different markets have different

approaches, like, so you're targeting
what Middle East, Russia, Turkey.

Can you share maybe some specific examples
and please be as specific as possible

about like some marketing strategies.

You mentioned that you're leading
marketing strategy and tactics

about something that you've
implemented in different markets.

Maybe you could do two examples.

So like our listeners can understand the
difference in approach and could learn.

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

So if you talked about Middle
East, we're talking about let's

say Gulf countries, which is a bulk
of Middle East and working with.

So if you're talking about
Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain,

Qatar, most, most of these countries
are sharing the same platform

or sharing the same purchasing

power and with some very minimal
differentiation between them.

But More or less are the theme
in, in, in, let's say marketing

tactics and the strategies.

So we mainly go with with let's say
market penetration of this, this market.

It's easier for registration.

We don't have really local
competition in this market,

especially with IVD investors.

Maybe it's different environment nowadays
with local manufacturers start to emerge

and merge more and more in this market.

But for IVD.

It's mainly based on
export, export from outside.

So it's mainly the, you have the
competition, but from international

competition, like all those.

So there is no local, let's
say, manufacturing from IVD.

So it's completely different
structure where you go somehow

with premium price, because.

It's export based and the
economy of the country help

you is going with this
with this premium pricing

and the insurance policies in this
country, as well as it's favoring that.

And you have a very, let's say
strong and robust insurance

coverage in these countries.

So it's different than going, let's say
to Turkey and Russia, Turkey and Russia,

you have a local manufacturing,
a huge local manufacturing there

where you are competing with.

Some companies that may
even may be supported

by the government because you want to
encourage their local manufacturing

and that's completely the rights.

If I were them, I would really cover.

I would really push for
local manufacturing.

So you are mainly here talking
about the quality of your product.

Versus a local manufactured
one and talking mainly about

let's say the added Ben added
value of your products, where the

,
let's say, technical performance of your
machine, few solutions versus others.

Local manufacturing, you're
trying to adopt somehow by

having some part of few products may be
local manufactured in the country so you

can decrease the cost of your products.

So it's two completely
different strategies than

what you are applying in Gulf.

If you go to a market like
Pakistan, where the country are

facing a lot of epidemics more than
COVID, like dengue, like whatever

the epidemic that we see in Pakistan.

Yes.

So you go differently with
with a charity, even hospitals.

So you put part of corporate social
responsibility in that because we are

responsible in front of the patient.

You're responsible in front of all your
end customer that you need to provide

the best solutions that you can with.

country that really deserves
to have the support.

So you play part of social corporate
responsibility and sometimes

you give, I'm not going to say
charity because it's not really

pure charity, but you're giving a
price that really can afford and.

Every patient can reach out
to the premium solution that

you can offer, and you can help the
country to get over this epidemic and

and the infectious disease that you have.

We have huge issues with
infectious disease, so you're

trying to do your best to do that.

So it's completely different, let's
say, marketing strategies that

sometimes you go with market access.

So in Gulf region, we'll go.

Now we start to invest more
and more in market access

because we are receiving somehow
rejection from insurance after COVID

because most of the government
are paying too much in COVID

and you know, most of the government
will now clearly we're reimbursing

everything about COVID 100 percent

especially in gulf so they paid a lot
and we understand that they are suffering

somehow from financial issues so
they are going very Thank you.

Let's say deep negotiation
with pricing and reimbursement.

So we're trying to go with market access

and to understand that and
to influence the guidelines

and to influence, let's say, the
decision makers about the value of our

solution, not just price versus price.

So we're talking about value based
model, not price based model.

So yeah, it's completely
different, I have to say.

So this is like a general example
of how we approach each market

of the region differently is.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
So basically you're saying that you're

doing more, you're investing more
into market, more into market access.

It's actually aligns well out with what
I'm hearing from other guests as well.

Market access starts to play a bigger
role and also the value based model.

That's also something very helpful.

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Yeah.

Yeah.

We even developing something
called value based training.

So our training is not
mainly about product specs or

product features and benefit.

No, now we are moving to
the next step or next degree

that we need to train our people
on the value based of our solution,

because we found that yes, our governments
are really keen about the budget,

but when they see the value
based of the solution versus

the value based of other solutions, they
see the quality and the quality of life,

they start to put this in perspective.

So they are experts now, even in
the governmental side, they are.

So much expert in the market
access and from macroeconomics

or cost effectiveness models.

They are expert on that
and they respect if you go

and talk with them about
the cost effectiveness

model of your solution, then just price
versus price or value versus value.

What is the cost effectiveness
of the full solution?

They respecting that they
understand that there is a good

calipers now in most of
the governments that we are

dealing with, that they really
understand this language.

So trying to adopt it is

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
I have a question.

So our guests don't know, but
I've asked Hazem about CLM

and CLM for those who don't
know, it's basically an

automation used for marketing.

It's called closed loop marketing.

And while traveling in Asia,
I've seen that not many

companies actually use the benefits
of closed loop marketing, like

system automation, which you find.

Incredibly useful since,
well, as many of you maybe

know I came from the SAAS world software
as a service where basically marketing

automation is everything and where

basic content plays a very, very
big role in educating in our case,

doctors and medical representatives.

Right.

And my question would be, so you have,
you obviously get data like doctor data

and other sorts of data and analytics.

Basically, how does that help you and how
do you use that data to improve your like

marketing efforts or marketing strategies?

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
So I'm 100 percent agree that.

And this is my belief that marketing
without data is like you work blindly.

So if you work blindly, you
don't know the customer.

You don't know where you are heading.

You are losing resources and resources
it's not mainly people or budget.

It's you losing.

You're losing as well time and effort and
that you can really better utilize it.

So without data, it's like
you're working blindly, so we

are using in some markets CLM.

So CLM, it's let's say it's the
first step of, I think it's,

it's more even advanced than,
more than CRM, but CRM for us,

it's really, it's really good.

Quite an offer at this level.

So I'm here, I'm going to talk about that.

How we deal with data because even
pharma or because an IVD data, how much

of that is, is really important to us.

So that has really giving us insights
of where we can best utilize our

resources based on this data.

So you have this amount of
money that you need to invest

,
but which market on which
product line that you need to

invest more than the other one.

So based on this data, that
gives you the opportunity.

So CLM giving in, given us
even the opportunity percent.

So let's say success
rate of this opportunity.

Based on the input that
we put like tenders,

like how many competitors, the tenders,

based on many inputs that we have
put in CRM, it gives us output of the

percent of success in this opportunity.

So you can really base
on that in deciding which

having the higher grade of success
and you go and based on that.

doesn't, does it really eliminate
the part of human perception

or let's say human judgment?

No, but it helps you a lot.

So sometimes the system is
giving you a percent of success,

but you think, or you know, from your
experience in the market that, yeah,

it can work, but this has a factor
that you cannot really input

in the system that will not
work because people say that,

okay, systems are nice and that are nice,
but we know the market better than that.

And we can take our
decision better than that.

It's yes and no.

So it has to be combined together.

We cannot depend 100 percent
on the data and the system,

and we cannot depend 100
percent on our perception

of the market or our experience and expert
in the market that we're dealing with.

So we have to combine
both together in order

to take the right decision of investment,
the right decision of utilization

of resources in terms of time.

Money people, FTEs, everything.

And I had, I had a good example on that.

So if I can share it with
you here in the podcast,

so in my previous work in pharma so
we used to have a line that it was

like a backbone of the business unit.

And if you look at that, you will
say that for sure I would put all my

resources in this line because it's
the backbone of this business unit.

And I have to put the resources,
I have to put the people, I

have to put the money there.

But at the same time, there was
a new launch of a new product

that came into this pipeline.

It's not really a game changing
launch, but it's a product launch

that it can give us some revenue.

So I was requested as being a
marketing manager is that how

to manage between the two lines.

Here is the backbone that
bring us all the money.

And here is the product launch that, but
we cannot really put extra FTEs on that.

So we need to manage within the
FTEs that we have right now.

So what we did is that
we go into discussion,

we go into market surveys, we go
in so many steps to understand how

much of the resources we really
need in this product that really.

Act as a backbone of the business unit and

by asking question asking question
and based on our experience

based on the letters that we get

from the market research from the
system that we have CLM system at

that time, we found that whenever
you apply a specific guidelines.

Okay, it's a risk
management guidelines inside

the hospital and you are making
sure that this hospital is

compliant 100 percent on that.

You can easily leave this
hospital without a sales rep

that covering this hospital
because once it's 100 percent

compliant with this risk management,
if any healthcare practitioner didn't

really obliged by these guidelines,

there might be a legal
responsibility on that.

So once you are sure
that it's 100 compliant,

then you can leave this hostel
freely with just follow up every

couple of months or every month,

just to follow up that you, that
you make sure that this hostel is

really on track and nothing deviated from.

And we thought that we can save.

FTEs by doing that.

So it was like a different
degrees of of project based

on the data that we had from the, from
the sales, let's say sales visit to the,

each type of hospital that has
the guidelines implemented.

And we find that the sales,
it was like organic sales,

organic, because it's already.

Implemented 100%.

See, there is nothing to do extra mile.

So just the organic
grass of this hospital.

From this data, we know that if we left
it just for a follow up, then we can

utilize these FTEs in the new line.

And we did that.

So, we even make 100 percent replacement
of the FTEs with the digital.

With a digital marketing.

So instead of having someone
to go and visit hospital.

No, we'll compensate all of
that with emails, with WhatsApp,

with webinars, with all of that.

Yeah.

Thank you.

So we take it even to a different
direction that we applied this go to

market model to the full business young.

How can we use a digital marketing?

And we use it really in
a very, very, let's say

granular analysis that each email
we did this analysis with our

business intelligence team, how much
each email represent in actual visit.

Like, if I send this email, how much
it does reflect in the actual visit.

And for example, if we say
that one email equals 0.

2 of actual face to face visits, that
means you need to send five emails

to get one actual face to face visit.

So it was like that.

It's for sure the percentage, it's not up
to my mind right now, but just an example.

And email was different than webinar.

Email was different than
let's say SMS or WhatsApp.

So we did all of that.

So we started first on one line
and then we said, why not to

apply it as a go to market model
for this business unit overall.

So we did all of that for
the go to market model

and we best utilize our FTEs to the
best line on product line that can

really meet people face to face.

But for this line, we thought
that as long as, and we put it in

phases, this phase will complete the
guidelines in this type of hospital.

And then we will shift
it completely to digital.

And the next phase will complete the
guidelines, this group of hospital.

And after that, we're going
to continue with digital.

And it worked.

So we saved FTEs for the new launch.

Which was successful.

And the new line, the old line, which
is the backbone of the business unit,

it continued growing yeah, it worked.

So it's only started with the
data that we had from the system.

Yeah.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Okay.

So I'll tell you this.

Let's say , the models I've used before,
like it's called like lead scoring.

So in New York, in our case, that
would be like maybe doctor scoring.

So each engagement, you would give it a 0.

1, 0.

2, right?

So let's say if a doctor
visited your website.

Well, you can't say, you can't,

don't know that because of
ggpair, but you can know that if

the doctor opened three of your emails,
there is certainly he's more I would call

the word indoctrinated with your, Yeah.

indoctrination in this case.

And the same goes about
webinars, like you,

if you ask them to subscribe to
the webinar, so then of course

you will know that certain doctor
or medical rep, will be there.

Then again, you can sort of increase
their leads, their lead scoring

model, their number, which means.

Technically it means that they are
more, more of your ambassador, right?

And this is a, this is a popular model.

And to be honest, I don't know why
in like yours truly innovational,

I guess, because you're the first
person that who I'm talking to,

who actually knows how this
works and actually uses it.

Digital is very, very like very,
outdated in terms of pharma.

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
It is.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Thank you for being a guest here.

It's like I, I hope our audience can
learn a little bit from him on this one.

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Thank you.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
If, because people don't, even

if they buy VEEVA and IQVIA, they
still don't know how to use a CLMs.

I'm like, I'm like, Jesus guys, you
can save so much time, so much time

you can save from your Salesforce,

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Yeah,

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
so they don't go out there, like just ask

for a meeting every three or four weeks.

Those doctors will be like, oh,
again, this guy, again, this,

again, this lady, you know,

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
exactly.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
you can use digital marketing to,

like, nurture them, nurture their
relationship with online as well.

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
I can have a comment on that

because it's in pharma because
I started my career in sales.

So I was using that in sales
and then which sales are

actually the people who input the
data to the CRM and this system, and

then you analyze it as marketing.

I noticed one thing that I was taking care

of it when I was a
marketer, that when you,

when you try to complicate the
process of inputting the data

and requires too much data,

I know that too much data
is very important, but there

is a very thin line between.

In enough data and too much data.

So this is thin line.

If you cause it, then sales
team will be bothered,

will be bored about using the
system and you will find the input

are not really qualitative enough.

So and based on input,
you will get the output,

which is really not matching the
reality and with not matching

the real ground what's happening.

So try to simplify.

The input that sales team the
CRM, so you get a quality of

data that you can base on it.

You don't need to get everything
at once, but start simple

with simplifying the process to
the sales team, because simplifying

will give them the power and the
try to get gamify it, or let's

say, encourage them by whatever
the reason that they can go.

Don't consider it.

It's a part of the job
and we pay them for that.

Yes.

But they will find a way to put or
get an input data, which you don't

think it's matching the reality or
it's not really quite qualitative.

So try to simplify it so you get the
quality data that you want from sales.

And based on that, you will get
an output data, which is high

quality that you can depend on it.

This is, I mean, the message
of CRM or any marketing tools.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Okay, so I'll tell you this, yeah,

so I don't know if you watch Netflix
or not, I watch it sometimes.

There is this movie called
Painkiller, it's about

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Just, just watch it and

doing one, one of my flight.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Yeah, actually I was flying from

was that from the Philippines and
we were in the conference, met

conference and I started watching it.

I was like, wow, it's really good.

It basically shows the outside world
of pharma to non pharma people.

Why I'm bringing this on.

So for our listeners,
it's about a painkiller.

It's a serious very short.

It's about a Purdue pharma who
created OxyContin and how they

marketed and sold the drug.

It was really innovational at that time.

And now because of.

Well, allegedly they started the
opioid crisis in the United States

and allegedly that was one of the
reasons that Pharma regulations

became very, very strict in terms
of like bribery and so on, in the

U S and in the whole Western world.

Now, what we're seeing is that
for example as far as I know,

if a sales well, as a field rep goes
to a doctor in the United States,

in the worst Western world, he
or she is not even allowed to

use notes to make even notes.

And that is a big burden
in terms of like data.

You don't have whatever he or she
remembers after the call, they might use

it, but they're not allowed to make notes.

This is like, because I'm thinking,

I don't know what the regulations in
the countries you are leading with,

but basically it cuts out all the data.

Like you want to sort of
nurture digitally the lead,

but if sales does not bring you data from
the field regarding what that, you know,

we're not even talking about what the sort
of drugs that does the doctor prescribe

we're talking about what sort of
content would the doctor consume

to make it an educated decision?

So my question would be here.

How do you go about this?

Like if like sales force doesn't
bring you like enough data to sort of

Categorize and nurture these elites.

What what do you do?

Do you have a

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
So I can say that what I'm

currently thinking right now is
that because in my new field,

we don't really have a sales team that
working with our, let's say premises.

As I said, it's distributed based
models, so we mainly depend on

the sales team of the distributor.

So I'm trying to help them as much as
I can to get the right data for that.

So.

One thing it can go also
with some digital platforms.

So there is a digital
platform, they applied here

and they start to even go further
and further in Europe and US,

which is like, if you can simplify
it, it's like a Facebook for doctors.

So it's a social platform, but for HCPs
only, and they are making sure that

whoever registered there, it's an HCP.

So

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
I'm sorry, can you give me a

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Yeah, go on.

It's, it's called, it's
called MidSignApps.

Okay.

This is actually their
name here, in the region.

I'm not really affiliated with them
or something, but I just sat with

the people and I saw the platform.

I know that they are
progressing more and more.

So it's like a social network for doctors
where they go interact with each other.

And There is even pages that can
be sponsored by pharma companies

or IVD companies that you can push
your content there and to see the

interaction with the doctor there.

So I tend to believe that people
behind the keyboards are more realistic

than meeting them face to face.

So behind the keyboard, they get all
out of inside their chest outside.

So you know them better and
better from behind the keyboard.

So from the level of interaction,
from the level of discussion, I

have to say that I didn't get.

To the level of being on this
platform, but just giving

them giving the audience and
inside that there might be another

platform that can work like that.

So you can get an analysis how
you care and how your doctors are

interacting on a scientific content.

Because it's easy to be
interacted on a laptop mobile.

So once you are making it easier, doesn't
need face to face, then you'll find

it's more interaction, more interaction.

So This is one part.

The other part is you go by yourself.

So yes.

So at least, yeah, it's not easy,
but I tend to always to believe

that marketer are the voice of
the customer inside the company.

So your customer, the marketer
are the only one who is defending

the voice of the customer,

who is transferring to the management,
the customer, what they are saying,

because you're seeing the customer
differently than sales even.

So you're seeing him as
a long term relationship.

You're seeing him as a long term,
let's say, business and even

personal relationship with him.

So you tend for a long relationships
and sales, which are mainly focusing

on a short term relationship.

So when you go and visit the
customer by yourself, it will never

be compensated by anything else.

So marketer has to go visit the customer.

At least the top of them,

it should find that the sales are
not giving you a quality of inputs,

or even if you find that the
sales are giving you quality

of inputs, your perspective

and your opinion and division of
the customer feedback are really

valuable to what you're doing.

You cannot base your marketing
strategy based only on sales

input and sales opinion.

You have to go check with
the customer, talk with them,

meet them in a conference, meet them in
seminars, start discussion with them.

And from them, you're going to
know, and you're going to enrich

your strategy more and more.

And Some more alteration to
use strategy and to tactics.

So this is a way, so mass
interaction, it'll be sure if you

are not, if you're not really see
that sales are giving the quality.

One part is that I have
to comment on that is yes,

it can happen that the sales team cannot,
you think that it's not a quality input,

but again, there are other people
that work with you and you have to

let them know what is the outcome.

Sometimes sales are disengaged
from the process because

they don't know if I brought all of
this outcome, what will be the results.

They are disengaged from that.

They are disengaged from
what's happening in the office.

So they have to see the full process
based on your outcome, based on your

input that you put and you gave it to me.

That happened.

This strategy has been altered.

This tactics has been created
or canceled or modified.

And we will aim to do
that and that and that.

If they kept disengaged, I just give
them tasks that I need this input.

I need this feedback.

I need this back, but they
didn't get the end result.

You will not get the quality
because they don't see it.

If you don't see it, you don't feel it.

You don't own it.

So they have to own the process.

They have to know that
their role is very critical

and without their input and without
the quality data that they provide,

we cannot really support
them back in the field.

We will be talking in
two different levels that

I'm speaking over the cloud as marketer
and you're spoken in the ground

and you think that marketers does
not understand what's happening.

But if you connect these
dots, then you will find that.

The input and the quality of
input you give, it results in a

better support for marketing and
for management to the customer.

Yeah.

So I believe it come in number one
first and then come to social media

or let's say digital platform.

And then it comes to that you have
to go and visit also your customer.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Okay.

So my question would be this
how's it like, apparently,

you're very good with technology.

Like how do you stay it
up, to date to the latest

technology and innovations
in let's say marketing

for pharma sales for pharma
and your input on ChatGPT?

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Okay.

So.

I will answer the first part,
which is how I keep technology

and I keep up with the technology.

So honestly speaking, or
let's say frankly speaking.

It's like when I was
working as sales, I didn't,

I didn't ever want that a doctor
closed his door in front of my face

because if you think that I
will not add anything to his,

let's say practical life or
clinical practice, then I will

not come actually to visit him.

So I have something.

And I wanted him all the
time to believe in that.

So when I'm being a marketer now,

I never close the door in front
of any marketing agency to

come and speak to me and tell me what's
new in the market because you speak with

all the marketers across the industry.

I don't have the time or chance to speak
to all these people in the industry, but

they do that because it's their work.

So they know the latest trends,
they know what's happening,

and it's one of the easiest way to learn
is to learn from your competitors and

from your peers inside that same industry.

So this one thing that I never close
my door in front of marketing agency.

Even if I will not work with
them, but I wanted to know what's

the new trend in the market,
what's happening with the market,

how the people are trying to
reach the customer more and more.

So this is one part.

The second part is that.

I'm active on social media,
so it has good and bad.

So whatever the platform, yeah, I might
not be participating, but I keep watching.

So I keep watching even Pinterest about
the new idea of, let's say, decorative.

It's all come together.

This is a new trend in
internal decoration.

That's meaning the new trend of people.

Flavor of let's say design.

That's mean that the new
trend and that it's all.

collecting and resulting
in something new together.

And that keeping up with keeping up
with all the new trends, it's really

the, let's say the life from up to you.

So you have to be updated.

You have to keep up with all the
trends, even political trends,

because It gives you, especially
with multinational companies

and covering multi countries,

you have to be updated with all
the political situation as well.

So it's like that you have to be
open to all the resources that

is available with your hand.

You have to read.

You have to find time to watch.

So All these trends are really
acting as farewell for our

thoughts and give you a new perspective,

give you a new plot.

The second point, which is
regarding ChatGPT I have to say,

I'm using it mainly in my personal
life than professional life.

We, so mostly of organization
and now they are not really

trusting the privacy of ChatGPT.

So, the event, the employees
from using that you don't,

you cannot write give me an idea of market
strategy for this pharmaceutical brand

or this brand in this type of customer
and this population, because they think.

Still, the privacy is not really
captured and it's not really proven

that it has a privacy and it
can be organizational privacy

or brand privacy can be transferred
between many organizations.

So we are banned from using ChatGPT
and I understand this point, but

I'm using it in my, let's say, life.

So If I'm writing a LinkedIn
post that I want to target

some people out of, let's say,
organization that I'm working on,

something proficient that I believe,
and it's my personal opinion,

I go to ChatGPT and write it in
a more proficient way with the

populations that I want to influence.

Like I decide the age, I decide
all of that code, and yeah,

I'm using it more personal or
proficient network that I have.

Then in my professional life, because
it's a company policy, not really

put ChatGPT in place right now.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Awesome.

Okay.

So I have the podcast is going
very well, but unfortunately I have

just one last question for you.

So

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Yeah, sure.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
If you had to give some advice to a

Pharma company let's say marketing slash
sales strategy, what would that be?

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
It's, you have to listen and communicate.

It's cliche thing, but this
is a core job of marketing.

You have to listen to your
customer, to your sales team,

to your your brand team as well.

You have to listen to them.

Sometimes we think that marketing
has to lead all of that.

Yes.

We're leading some.

Run team by influential leadership because
it's our management under our management,

the brand, but without those
people that listening to them,

you might get an idea and different
perspectives that you didn't

think of and communicating.

So communication is all about
marketing is all about communication.

You have to communicate to the
sales team, what you're thinking of.

So they don't think that.

This is the dilemma and let's
say between sales and marketing

sales are always thinking that
marketing are over the cloud.

And the marketing, all the things
that says I'm really looking

just next day or this day only.

No, it's not like that.

We both work together and it's just about
the communication between both of us.

You have to know what's our
objective and why we're doing that

and why we're asking for that.

And they have to communicate what's
the support they need from us.

So if you keep listening from your team
and from outside, even the organization,

from your customer, for
sure, from your customer

and keep communicating, that will help not

to put yourself in silo or put your
team in silos and start work on silos.

That will never help
you as a marketer first.

to develop your career as a
marketing or for the organization.

So, yeah,

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Awesome.

Thank you for Hazem for this podcast.

Hopefully we can meet in a year time
and record this with new insights

and knowledge for our listeners.

Thank you all

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
sure.

stefan-p1bdehnj4__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
for listening to this episode

I'll see you on the next one.

hazem-tk3rcn4sn__raw-synced-video-cfr_hazem-el-sayed-from-biomereux_2023-sep-15-0610am_pharma_sales and te:
Thank you.