Everybody Hates Pharma

Welcome to the Pharma
Sales and Tech Podcast.

Join Artem, Stefan, Ruslan, and
Chris as we explore the latest

trends and developments in the
pharmaceutical industry with a focus

on sales and technology from cutting
edge innovations To practical tips

and strategies, our expert guests
will provide valuable insights to

help you stay ahead of the game.

Tune in to stay informed, inspired, and
connected with the world of pharma sales.

Stefan: Hello ladies and gentlemen,
today is again me, Stefan Repin marketing

at Platforce, still the same position.

It's already getting boring, I guess.

And we have a great guest today.

It's a doctor, Dr.

Rashmi Upadhyay.

And as a matter of fact she has a
great personality and she's right

now she's been through a lot of
journeys and she will tell a little

bit about herself as an intro.

Welcome doctor.

Dr. Rashmi: Thank you so much, Stefan
it's a pleasure to be here on your show.

And it's a pleasure to be talking about
pharma industry, where I have spent a

considerable amount of time learning
and having a 360 degree overview.

So, great to be here.

Stefan: Amazing.

Okay.

Tell me about your what
are you doing right now?

Like what's your position right now?

Are you working with someone right now?

What are you doing?

Dr. Rashmi: So, currently I'm based out
of India, Bangalore, and I'm working as an

independent consultant for pharma clients.

And mostly it's for new product
introduction, either in the global

markets or vice versa, because a lot
of companies are coming to Indian

market, and they want to introduce
their products to Indian market.

So, there I work as person
who is navigating both the

sites for the pharma clients.

And also from the investment side, we
try to identify a lot of investment

opportunities in the market and try to
take it to the relevant stakeholders

who can find the relevance of these
projects from the market perspective

and kind of invest and bring the
structure or the foundational aspect

to a lot of these projects, which
are upcoming and ending market.

Other thing you must realize that
you know, if any pharma company,

you look at it, majority of these
pharma companies are located in the U.

S.

because almost 40 percent of
their revenue is generated.

Any top 10 pharma companies, if you
look at it 40 percent of their revenue

is being generated from US alone.

Followed by China, which
contributes around 10%.

And now the next set of growth
is coming from the EMEA market,

from the BRICS nations, and from
the Southeast Asian countries.

And that's where a lot
of pharma companies are.

feeling the need to be present here
to cater their products to cater

their activities in a very targeted
fashion for this particular market.

Stefan: Interesting.

So they're basically adapting their
products to the local market and you're

helping them connect dots and actually
launch the product in the market.

Right.

Dr. Rashmi: Yes.

Stefan: Interesting.

Okay.

So are there any peculiarities about the
Indian market that you would like future?

Let's say I have a drug, I have a drug.

I'm in the US I have, I want to sell,
give you an example, Oxycontin in India

I want to sell Oxycontin in India, right?

What would be the stages like
through which you would take me as a

consultant, like, well, what can you
help me and what would be the process?

So,

Dr. Rashmi: So if you look at the Indian
market, Stefan it is evolving and it

is evolving with a lot of ambition
because the Indian pharma companies,

as they are coming up earlier, they
were looked at as a manufacturing

base for a lot of big pharma companies
who wanted to get that economies of

scale for manufacturing many of their
products, ready products for the market.

But now there is a shift
which is happening.

A lot of these pharma companies are
now involving themselves into R&

D process and they are ready now.

To capture the market in terms of new drug
development or the preclinical trials.

So it's, there is a considerable shift
from being a service based industry.

As it was earlier, the manufacturing
base for the world pharma companies

to being now, a significant partner in
terms of the drug development procedure,

which is happening around the world.

It is a significant contributor in terms
of the research which is happening.

Now, if you are thinking of launching
any product in the Indian market,

it is imperative that you study the
demographics of the Indian market.

The population genetics if you
consider, has been lagging a lot

for the South Asian countries.

What has happened that all the preclinical
trials being earlier restricted to

few of the nations, the database
which has been generated for a lot of

these drug development procedures are
pretty much having data confined to a

particular demographic of the population.

It is not having all the
segments of different ethnicity

or the races involved here.

So now whatever preclinical studies for
these new products are happening are also

involving a lot of South Asian population.

And so if you are introducing a drug,
you have to study the feasibility.

Whether your drug would be as effective
as it was for your for the North

American market or the European market,
if it's going to be as effective.

Once you ascertain that
kind of information that,

Stefan: You gotta do a
feasibility test, right?

And see how does the drug acts
on local population, right?

Dr. Rashmi: yes, yes, that should
be the basic step and then you go

towards the regulatory aspects.

We try to restrict ourselves to the
regulations which are being followed in

the European markets or the North American
markets, taking them to be the industry

standards or the benchmarking regulations.

So a lot of regulatory requirements
which was needed for those markets are

still relevant for the Indian market.

Beside that, there are some
stringent requirements for Indian

market also, which is being
implemented by government of India.

So you come and you take those
steps necessary to have the

regulatory paperwork done.

And in considerable amount and wherever
you need support, you have to involve

the policymaker, the decision maker,
and that's where we come into picture in

terms of getting you connected with the
policymakers or the regulatory authorities

and In simple term, if I have to say the
paper clearance which is needed for the

launch of these products and once that
is done, then you assert in the market

how big market you want to capture.

What's what is also seen that for
the pharma companies things which

were working for you in another
market may not be very relevant here.

You might have to refine your
strategy or completely change your

strategy to capture the market.

Then the fourth thing comes to
pricing and you have to see how

much you can play around with the
pricing to capture that market share.

And there also you will have to see how
with that kind of price range if you are

able to reach the kind of the market share
you are imagining or you are portraying.

So a lot of things there
we have to play around.

Stefan: Okay, so let's, I would like you
to tell me, so this is very interesting.

So you're helping from, are you
helping a company from A to Z?

Or there are stages that
you do not get involved?

Dr. Rashmi: So once they are ready
to launch their product, that's where

we move aside and the experts who are
involved in launching these products.

When I'm saying launching these products,
the availability of these products in

the markets, in terms of the availability
at the pharmacies or other places, those

are taken care by these professionals.

So, right we are there in the
strategy stage and the clearance

of the regulatory aspects.

Stefan: Okay.

Interesting.

So let's say for the sake of this
podcast, let's keep the client anonymous,

but do you have maybe a specific
example of successful market access

for a drug which came from outside
and you helped them go through A to Z?

No matter was it your, at your previous
job or your existing job doesn't matter.

And you can keep the company
anonymous for the sake of

Dr. Rashmi: Yeah, but I do have
experience of getting the drug introduced

in the market, not for the Indian
market, but there was a time when we

wanted to launch a drug for the North
American market, the Latin countries.

So if that's relevant, maybe,

Stefan: Yeah.

That's very relevant.

That's very relevant.

Yeah, of course.

Dr. Rashmi: So this particular
drug was which was as a replacement

for the blood transfusion, was a
plasma extender, which was developed

by researchers from university.

And it was a very promising method of
supplementing the blood shortage during

an accident or victim when they reach
to the hospital, all such scenarios, and

they wanted to take it to the market.

Now, there was a regulatory aspect
which had to be fulfilled in terms

of the approvals, the FDA approvals,
the Federal Reserve approvals,

and in terms of the research, the
preclinical studies which were done.

What were the requirements?

Whenever the preclinical trials or
the studies are done there are certain

aspects which the FDA revisits in terms
of asking you a few more experimentations.

So those were taken care of.

And once those hurdles were cleared,
Then it was ready to be launched.

Unfortunately, for that product, we did
not get the FDA approval for a variety

of reasons pertaining to same the
preclinical and the clinical studies.

But in the Latin countries, we were able
to launch that product successfully,

and that was helping in survival,
increase survival rate of lot of accident

victims, burn victims, and scenarios.

And it's still under deliberation for
the FDA government, and we are in talks.

But this is how a successful market
strategy happens for a product.

Now also the dynamic pricing, and
now sometimes what happens, these

products are so innovative that
there is no comparison to the price

margin which you would like to place.

A lot of the pricing thing depends
on the ability of the market

to pay for that price point.

And also your ability.

Or your timeline to get to the
break even point of your research

and also for the product.

So, I hope that satisfies them.

Stefan: Yeah, that's interesting.

I want to, in fact, I want to dig deeper.

I want to understand how would you
like, for example, such a product

how would you promote and sell
distributed sort of a product to the

new market, such as LATAM you mentioned?

Dr. Rashmi: Yeah, so these kind of
products when we are dealing these

are breakthrough products for sure.

And when you are dealing, you have
to rely a lot on the channel partners

or the local the localized dealers.

Who have close tie-ins with the
hospitals or with the given market.

So this product specifically, we
relied a lot on channel partners

who had direct access to the SCPs.

And we also had to do a lot of educational
seminars, workshops for the SCPs to

find the relevance in this product.

Once they found the relevance in this
product, what we also did was a lot of

education around the hospital stuff, if
this product, how to How to store this

product, how to freeze this product
what happens in case you need larger

volumes, how to reconstitute this product,
all those scenarios, they were kind

of enacted in the hospital setting to
show how this particular thing works.

And that is pretty much, can be
transferred to other areas or other

product introduction also where you are
relying on a dealer or a channel partner

to take your product to the market.

Okay.

At any given point, strategically,
we might be very sound in terms of

studying and understanding the market.

We might be very sound, but when
it comes to having that kind of

access to the network, which is
needed to get your product in the

channel or in the marketplace, you
have to depend on the local players.

And that's where the local players and
these local players, when I'm talking

about the channel partners or dealers.

They are in the industry, they are in
this business, they are pretty stringent

about the requirement, pretty stringent
about the product and they also would

like to involve in such projects
where their reputation remains intact.

So, because in pharma the regulation
is so high, the market is really,

that's the biggest hurdle for
this market, any barrier, when

you talk about barriers to entry.

So I think every stakeholder who is
in pharma, right from the bottom to

the top is very much aware about.

This particular scenario.

So they themselves are very vigilant in
terms of what product is being introduced.

They are, the regulatory authorities
are very vigilant what kind of products

are being introduced in the market.

Whether they are fulfilling all
the compliance which is needed

for the particular product
which is going to be launched.

And the HCPs, the physicians
who are in direct touch with the

customer, they are pretty vigilant.

So, you can imagine with all people
being playing all Considerable amount

of stake in this particular scenario.

It's a very guarded process which happens.

Stefan: So they're all very vigilant.

Okay.

That's my understanding.

Everyone is very vigilant.

Okay.

How about you?

Like you, when you have this product,
how are, I would like to know more about

how are you guys being vigilant about.

Giving the right perimeters.

So when you talk to your channel
partner, you said, or your

distributor, how do you teach them?

How do we teach their salespeople
that, Hey, this is the product, this

is the, these are the qualities,
this is how you have to sell.

How does that process happen?

This is how you have
to market it, you know.

Dr. Rashmi: So any product
which comes to us we need to

have a thorough understanding.

So all these projects and the information
about the products the documents which

are submitted, they are all analyzed.

They are all, all are thoroughly studied
in house by people who are expert in

their field in terms of pharmacokinetics,
in terms of toxicology, in terms

of understanding the market needs.

And then we arrive on a given proposal,
whether this project is feasible or not.

So first, due diligence is done
internally, whether we believe this

product is useful for the market,
whether this product is relevant

and whether this product meets
the criteria which it promises.

Once you have done that, then comes the
sales force with whom, or the channel

partners, even they have their independent
sales force, whom we have to train.

So considering everything is
now taken care of in terms of

regulatory aspect, in terms of the
paperwork, and now the product is

ready to be launched in the market.

Now comes the salespeople.

So what we start is,
start from the beginning.

We train the salespeople in terms of
the technical aspects of the product.

Second is training these salespeople
in scenario enactment, where different

questions which can be asked by
physician, which can be asked by patient.

They have to know what is the relevant
answer or what can be promised.

You don't have to over promise,
you have to state the fact.

That's the ethical foundation which
every person in pharma has to follow.

in respective of what role
they are playing with it.

so

Stefan: I have a question.

Who does the training?

Do you, are you doing that as the
representative of a product, are you

doing the training or is it your training,
the channel partner and the channel

partners is doing is basically making
up these requirements on, you know,

what they promise and what is delivered.

Dr. Rashmi: mostly the technical
aspect of the training is covered

by the company who has generated the
product, who has launched the product.

So they are responsible for covering
the technical aspect and also a few

of the questions which might be there.

And then we come into picture when we have
to make these salespeople ready for the

market aspects in terms of the marketing.

to physicians in terms of
understanding the nuances, in terms

of identifying the opportunities
where these products can be pitched.

So those comes in our domain.

Stefan: Interesting.

Okay.

You have to be very
careful with this, right?

Because you, as a producer of pharma,
of drugs, you have to give the right

promise to the, to the HCPs, right?

And without overselling, because that
can have a negative impact on your sales.

And of course, on your reputation, on
the drug reputation, because once it

goes bust, you will never be able to
get neither the approval, neither the

trust of the HCPs who will test the drug.

Dr. Rashmi: And there are many cases
where drug has failed, not in the

initial phases of development, not
in the preclinical trials, not in the

clinical trials, but they have failed
after being launched in the market.

Because there were certain symptoms
associated which were not there present

during the clinical trial studies.

So those drugs had to be
pulled out from the market.

So you have to be careful
what you are talking to.

The SAP.

mm-Hmm.

Stefan: Okay.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Lately I was watching a lot
of movies about the opioid

crisis in the United States.

And there've been many cases, you know,
doctors initially would prescribe the

drug to let's say stage four cancer.

And then basically having, getting
a bribe, they would prescribe it

to everyone else from menstrual
pain to headaches, right?

And that would create a lot of problems.

A lot of people will get dependent
on the drug, a lot of drug abuse.

And that's what formed the opioid
crisis in the US and they had to

pull a lot of drugs from the market.

The, so I think this is a very, very fine
line between basically asking the doctor

to, Hey, can you please test this drug?

I think it's going to save the lives.

And on the other side, you have such a
thing as like you know, you have to be

careful with the doctor has to be careful
with introducing the drugs because they

might create addiction and they could
be well, of course it's not the case

of your drug, which is, you know, which
is not I guess highly addictive, right?

But in many cases the doctors
are very aware of yeah.

Of the well of the risk of the
risk coming from when you drug.

Okay, let's change

Dr. Rashmi: a lot of these doctors
also periodically, I mean, every now

and then they train themselves, they
update your knowledge base, they

interact with the industry colleagues
to know If there are better drugs

which are available for your patient.

So it's not like it's a very passive
thing which is happening in the

pharma domain, in the pharma industry.

It's a very active domain.

Everybody is playing a very active
role, including the HCPs whom we are

reliant upon for forming this new market.

Stefan: Interesting.

Okay, how so we talked we spoke
about the knowledge in the in

the field for doctors, right?

So they get updated
they go to conferences.

How about you Rashmi?

How do you get updated about the latest?

Let's say market access sales marketing

Regulatory, how do you find the latest

news in this?

Dr. Rashmi: one thing is our learning
doesn't stop even after you graduate, even

after you are from out from the college.

So that ability to learn and you should
be a voracious reader in terms of

reviving the new information about the
market, about your domain, about the new

drugs which are coming in the market,
about something which has been now.

Didn't get approval.

The reasons behind it.

So you keep updating yourself and any
successful sales or marketing person

will be habitually doing that every day.

Once that is done, then you
come across the marketing

strategies or the sales strategy.

One thing which has not been very
fair in the pharma industry is a very

late adoption of the digital marketing.

Banking was like one of the
segment which quickly adopted the

digital transformation, but pharma
industry has lagged behind a lot.

And if we talk about the kind
of the digital marketing, which

is happening right now is very
multi channel in approach.

We still are a little further away from
the omni channel approach of marketing.

So when you, when I say omni channel,
there's like having a seamless experience.

Experience in multiple devices whether
you are logging from your phone, whether

you are logging from your desktop, whether
you are like logging from your iPad,

you should see that seamless transition
from one device to another device.

When I say transition, in terms
of if, suppose I looked at some

information in my mobile about, a
particular cancer that should show up.

When I log into my iPad or when I log into
my iPad there should be some notification

around attending a webinar to know
more about what are the cures which are

available for that particular cancer.

Once I enroll into webinar, then I
should get some information around.

What are the new technologies
which are evolving around that?

So that's the overall
omnichannel approach.

Very seamless from one
device to another device.

And that helps the HCPs,
that helps the patients.

And things are very dynamic now.

The patients are also reading
a lot on the internet.

And with the advent of AI.

A lot of things are pretty much
digestible in terms of the information

which is there in the internet.

So the patient is also equally
aware of what all is happening

in terms of the disease and
what all outcomes can be there.

So yeah.

Stefan: Why do you think you mentioned
it's a very big topic, actually.

So painful disclaimer, we sell
a CLM and a CRM at Platforce.

And with the CLM, we are able
to provide a omnichannel slash

multi channel experience.

And therefore, my question, why do
you think there is a problem from in

between this transition from omnichannel
to multi channel and vice versa?

What do you think is the burden there?

Dr. Rashmi: See, when you are doing a
very targeted approach, you are able

to form that thought leadership around
a certain thing, around a certain

subject, about which a physician is
interested in knowing more about it.

As a company, you might have 10 products
in the market catering to a different

segment, but me as a physician who is,
who has expertise in diabetes would

be only interested in knowing more
about different conditions, different

scenarios or different products which
are available to combat that disease

and because I have to disseminate that
information to the customers to the

patients who are coming to the clinic.

So, I'll be more inclined when you
are doing a multi channel approach,

what happens you are thinking from
your products, okay, I have these

10 products, these 20 these five
products are giving me 80 percent

sales, let's push this into the market.

That doesn't help so much.

So one is targeted approach, one is like
having that seamless experience for the

customer to become an advocate of yours.

Because these kind of market, they are
solely dependent on advocacy, how you

are able to advocate it to the HCPs.

And then they are able to kind
of advocate it to their patient.

If I have to cite you an example,
I can cite an example of Genomics

market, how it evolved in India.

Five years back, we did an analysis
and we found that out of 200 drugs,

which are available all over US and
the European markets, only 40 drugs

were available in India, and we
wanted to establish genomics market.

Now, the overall trucks or the
principle of genomics market is

that you study the DNA sequence.

You find the mutation and based on that
mutation, you find a targeted drug.

Now we don't have the drugs.

So what we will do even after finding the
mutation, so essentially we are creating

a market without having the solution.

You think the Scps will agree to that?

Stefan: Yeah, that's really tricky.

I'm looking this from an HCP perspective
and I see the problematic enhanced here.

My question, but yeah,
it's, it's very interesting.

I'm, I'm seeing what that pharma, well,
pharma introducing new drugs from market,

one market to another, or completely
market access for a completely new drug.

I think they're, they're
not using content correctly.

So I'll tell you this I come
from a little bit of a, so I'm in

pharma for maybe like two years.

And before that I used to
have a job on pharma, but I

switched in between industries.

And I can tell you that I think
pharma companies, whenever they

create the Omni-channel slash the
multi-channel experience, they're

focusing too much on sales and.

That much on thought leadership and
advocacy, meaning by that, I mean,

they try to sell too much which
creates a burden actually for the HCP.

It's like, well, they're trying to push
this product, you know, which means, if

they wanted too much, you know, they
say, if you want this too much, then

most certainly not going to happen.

So I'm seeing a few
changes actually in Asia.

When we were in Asia, in the
Philippines, in the conference I

spoke with a content agency which
provided content for big pharma.

And let's say that the challenge
within pharma lies that they do have,

they do want to make new content
that will create more advocacy.

But they have no idea how to create
that content because pharma is good

at producing drugs and basically going
through Regulatory and all of that

things but pharma doesn't know how to
create good content that will create

advocacy So what these guys did is that
basically they helped they the content

agency went in the fields with the
doctors and they created viral content.

How doctors interact with
HCPs locally in the areas.

And they also help them like
create distribution, like on

TikTok, YouTube Facebook, a lot
of doctors in on Facebook on Meta.

And that created a lot of advocacy for,
let's say, I'll give you an example.

It was a heart, it was a heart drug.

That's number one.

Number two they they also created
a lot of content because Pharma has

a problem that let's say there is a
certain pharmaceutical company, which

has a lot of expertise in a certain
domain, again, heart diseases, but

they have a problem with basically
packaging all that expertise and sending

it through a multi, such omni channel
approach to their doctors because

they have just no idea how to do that.

They have no idea how to do in
so terms in marketing terms,

calling that content marketing,
which will create more advocacy.

So the agency also called help them
create more content about, and awareness

about solutions for heart diseases,
new types of heart diseases and so

on, and how those can be solved.

What's very interesting, there is a
twist here, not only with their own

products, yeah, with that particular
brand, which created all this

content, but with competitors and
also listed what's very interesting.

It also listed the advantages and
the disadvantages of using several

products in the space, in the
niche, which basically they did

a lot of advocacy and they did.

They basically unsold, they unsold,
they experienced their product,

but they pay by selling it by
basically packaging it differently.

And it was a great success.

A lot of doctors, because doctors,
most of the doctors, let's face it.

They're a bit skeptical.

They have to be skeptical about new drugs.

Dr. Rashmi: have to be.

Stefan: so by basically coming up
front and saying, okay, we have

this new drug, but, and these
are the competitors we have.

And there is a certain risk that is,
that comes up with taking these drugs.

And we have seen this and this and
these are the competitors by BA

basically being more transparent
and seeing a full picture of that.

For, for me personally, if I was a doctor,
it would be my way more transparent.

I would have more, way more trust
in that particular drug coming.

If I would see the full picture
right and it would come forward.

So I think that's the way how
pharma should transform its

journey and use a lot of digital.

Maybe you have any comments
to this, to this case?

I was explaining.

Dr. Rashmi: Yeah, you are
absolutely right in saying that.

See there will be always inhibition by
the physician because they are directly

seeing the scenario in terms of the
patient outcome, in terms of how the

patient is responding to a given drug.

A lot of that scrutiny is because
their reputation is on stick when

they are treating these patient.

Let's be honest about that.

Other thing.

Other thing is all these HCPs are
continuously trying to learn new things.

So if you can make that journey or
giving that knowledge, that information

to them in a seamless way, they'll
definitely advocate your product.

Provided your product is high quality
and it promises, and it meets a

promise what it is saying in the
brochure, which is being given.

And if you are upfront to the doctors
about, and honest about the pros and the

cons of using a product, that gives them
a lot of leverage when they are working on

a given situation or in a given scenario.

In terms of the symptoms, in
terms of you know, any ill

effects which a drug can have.

Stefan: Yeah, it's so basically I'm
for the movement that that takes all

the doctors from a passive, from a
passive situation where he's being

sold to a situation when the doctor
has the knowledge and he or she can

basically make the choice of what
drug to use based on the information

given by the by the pharma companies.

And I think Objectively I think it is
a better situation because you give

the people freedom to basically choose
what medicine, what drug they're going

to use without overselling it to them.

And I think that's, what I'm seeing
in a lot of industries now, like people

have the freedom, they will be able to
choose and I'm seeing the buyer journey.

Like the buyer that in this case,
they should be journey change, even in

Asia or countries like America where
we were recently with the platforms.

Okay.

Dr. Rashmi: You develop the
thought leadership in this domain.

As a pharma company, if you want to
be seen as a thought leader, as a

pioneer in your field, That's how
you have to you have to strengthen.

You have to give the power to physicians
to make that informed decision.

Stefan: I have a question for you.

So I would say that in a lot of cases you
know, there are certain challenges that

you face when you introduce a new drug.

What are the, let's say, common
challenges that maybe you

faced or you've seen new drugs?

New drugs are facing in the Asian market,
let's say when they are introduced,

Dr. Rashmi: Yeah.

So when you are introducing a product,
the biggest challenge for any market

is especially for the pharma companies
is meeting the regulatory requirements.

When I'm saying regulatory
requirements, it could be very

different for different countries.

Don't go by the norm that what was
relevant for one market will be

still relevant for the other market
we assume that those Regulations

which are good enough for U.

S.

or the European market should hold
true for Indian market, African

market, or even for South Asian market.

But what has happened that people
have become more stringent here.

So they follow the US fDA regulations.

The European regulations as well as
they have their own regulations and

those regulations don't only come in
terms of the quality of the drug which

you are introducing in the market.

Those regulations also come in terms
of the pricing which you want to

introduce in the market, the price
point which you are introducing.

Those can also come in terms of anti
competitiveness for the product.

Those can also come in terms of
how you are reaching, in terms of

the messaging which you are HCPs.

Those should be very transparent.

And once you have everything in
place, then the product should

be ready to launch in the market.

So,

Stefan: right?

I like, I like the answer.

Okay.

I have a few of the, how involved
are you in the sales and marketing

of new drugs, or you're more the, you
know, the regulatory part all of that.

Dr. Rashmi: I'm more involved in
the marketing of the drug sales

not so much, but I do have kind
of the role in terms of helping.

Because they are the warriors.

They are going and facing the market.

They are studying the subtle changes
which is happening in the market.

And they are bringing back that
information from the market in terms

of which competitor is active in
terms of which is the drug, which

is being prescribed now and how our
product can replace or can be used

in tandem with the other options
which are available with the HCPs.

So those information needs to
be like to and for and marketing

on its own cannot function.

It has high strategic value only when
you incorporate all these information

from the market and then you are ready
to come back with a refined strategy.

Because just the product introduction
is not, your job is not done.

You have to think in terms of the ROI.

You have to think in
terms of the market share.

You have to think in terms of
the break even which has to

be reached for a given drug.

You have to think in
terms of the investment.

You have to think in terms of
the refinements which are needed.

The marketing messages messaging, which
we were talking just a while back.

That has to be refined based
on these market intelligence,

the competitive intelligence.

So competition driven marketing
strategies has to be incorporated

and that cannot be done in isolation.

So that's where we are dependent
a lot on the sales colleagues.

Stefan: Interesting.

Okay.

My experience, like, so again, I
do marketing, but we're like a CRM.

So what's your experience with
e detailers or CLM products?

Have you used any of those to promote?

Dr. Rashmi: We have used e
detailing products at the CLM.

We do feel that helps in getting the
traction in terms of that top of my brand

record in terms of making your product,
understand good enough in terms of the

information good enough for the physician
or for the end customers to understand Who

are buying those drugs over the counter.

Certain drugs are over the counter
also, they are in the label.

So for all those things we have found
it pretty useful, but yeah, those are

Stefan: Okay.

So my question is like my experience of
the Indian market is that a very small

part of Indian pharma or let's say Indian
manufacturers are using e detailers

because For some reason, there is a, well,
in India, doctors prefer flash visits.

So my question would be, you as a
marketer, if the companies you work

with, let's say manufacturers do not
use e detailers, how can you track?

Like if it was certain what KPIs,
what parameters, what engagement

metrics do you use to track if.

The basically the efficacy of
your campaign for a certain drug.

Is it only just, I don't know
keep your eyes from the field.

Oh, I think this doctor didn't like it.

Or like, what, how do you track that?

How do you measure that?

Dr. Rashmi: So for e details and
for these campaign effectiveness,

the method remains the same.

The CTR links are there, how much
time these HCPs are spending on a

given link or the site, which you
have set, or if they are filling any

kind of forms for the webinar or the
seminar, which is coming beside that

we do a lot of targeted marketing.

But those targeted marketing are
very specific need based targeted

marking, geotagging, which we have
done for a few of the products.

So geotagging is, actually, if I have
to tell you, you have to find the

population where the HCPs are dominant.

Maybe a residential place, maybe
around the hospitals, and then you

start sending your messages the very
targeted messages for those HCPs.

Suppose a cancer hospital is there,
and the neighboring, you will be sure

that around 80 percent of the HCPs
who are there, They will be somehow

related to this particular domain and
then you send a targeted messages.

And information through emailers, through
your e detailing or through the web forms

which we are distributing, or the browser
link, which you want to share with them.

They will access and you
will get those information.

It would not physicians are also very
busy, so they would not get so much

of time to really, sit and go through
everything that you're sending.

And that's why the omnichannel
way of marketing is essential

if you want to cover them.

Suppose they are in their clinic,
they are browsing through mobile.

They went to their desk while they're
prescribing something to their

patient, noting down the symptoms
in their particular software.

They a IP software the medical recording
software and they are sideways browsing.

So the same information
should show up there.

What they were interested in through
the email you send the link for

the webinar on that given topic.

That's how you generate that kind of
market need or the HCPs preference.

Stefan: So pharma, listen up, you
have to use e-Detailing and you have

to use content marketing because
that will create way more advocacy

for your products than just selling.

That's some advice from Dr.

Rashmi here.

Okay.

I have a few more questions
to finish this podcast with.

How, well, what do you use on it?

What, what would be the latest thing
that you've discovered for yourself

in terms of like marketing new drugs
or in terms of marketing for pharma

Dr. Rashmi: That's a very
interesting question.

Stefan: or ChatGPT maybe, maybe
using that and then, you know

Dr. Rashmi: See one wave of
revolution, which is happening because

of ChatGPT or because of the AI
softwares, which are now availables.

And the Pharmas are actively doing that.

What they're doing is earlier the
information brochure which was supplied

with any of the products from the
Pharma, they were manually read and a

copy of those brochures were sent to
regulatory authorities, policy making

before you launch your product, and
also a copy is given to the patient.

If you have bought any of those
dresses, you see those brochures.

It's very important that whatever
information is given in those

brochures is very accurate.

up to date and it's written in a
language which is understandable.

There should not be, you know, certain
times things could be written in such

a way that it would not make the same
sense which the pharma company wanted

to convey and it could create a lot of
confusion in the patient or the HCP who

is prescribing that drug, that language.

So now they are training all the At
least the big pharma companies, if I

have to name, GSK is doing that, Merck
is doing that my previous organization,

Merck they kind of they made these
kind of softwares, these kind of

machine learning algorithms, which
can read through these huge documents.

And they are making it a
very automated process.

And this has cut down the time which
was needed to go through these scripts.

And they were built thousands of pages
of scripts, which we are generating.

From anywhere from one month, now,
within five minutes or so everything

is ready in terms of the language, in
terms of the information, the barcode

the requirements which are needed to
portray certain times you might miss

certain information which has to be given.

So AI is bringing a lot of revolution.

I'm very excited and very happy to see
that because when first , I think it was

in 2010 or so, when Microsoft and Google,
they were announcing that they are working

on something similar in terms of the
electronic data management for patient.

Getting those data and using that
for the preclinical, clinical

studies and all those things.

There was a lot of controversy, a
lot of talks happening that time.

But that itself sounded very remarkable.

Now we are seeing after 10,
15 years, we are seeing the

result of all those efforts.

Stefan: Yeah, that's the, you know a long,
a long journey starts with a small step.

So I

Dr. Rashmi: Yes.

Stefan: AI wasn't created the
one that it took ages and ages

and generations to make the leap.

I'm certainly seeing a lot of good
use of AI in pharma, although a lot

of pharma people will say, Oh, I'm
not using AI, they will still use

ChatGPT, but you know, for their own
tasks, something that's not mentioned.

So you know, instead of complaining
about it, you can embrace the change

and sort of like roll with it.

I have my last question for you.

So do you, if there was something that
you could tell the upcoming, so there,

if there was a potential client who
would contact you and say, what would

be your best advice you can give me when
I start implementing certain strategies

when it comes to market access for
drug, for a product, what would you,

what kind of advice would you give?

Dr. Rashmi: Yeah.

Well, that's a very deep question.

And that requires a lot
of strategic thinking.

And, A lot of know how
of different markets.

You have, you might have seen examples
where companies who are far ahead of

their game in terms of having that bigger
market share or having that patient

advocacy or HCPs advocating those drugs
when they launch into a different market.

A newer market, they go by the same rules.

They go as if they would gain the market
share, which they were enjoying back home.

And they will have the same
kind of reciprocation from the

patient and from their recipients.

The case might be very different.

So instead of going head on in these
kind of market, what What you should

be doing as a pharma company is you
should be looking at those very targeted

segment for your products, for your for
launching your products, very targeted

markets spaces for launching your
product, because that will save a lot

of financial burnout, or you can refine
your strategy at a smaller scale before

you reach out to the larger scale.

And it will give you a feel of the market.

A lot of times, there is so much
disparity in terms of the pricing,

in terms of the product availability.

You might want to capture a market, but
you might not be able to supply to that

market in its full, in your full capacity.

What the demand is there in market.

And that's why a lot of homing of
a lot of Pharma manufacturing has

happened after COVID because the
supply chain was disrupted so much.

So all these things, when you will combine
together and in layman terms, we call

it Guerrilla marketing strategy, that.

What you should be aiming at when you
are going to a newer market with a newer

product, which nobody knows, because
when you are adopting to that kind of

a very targeted, very niche approach,
you have a bandwidth to evolve, to

modify, to change your strategy before
itself, before you burn out the cash

or before you burn out everything.

So test it with, test it with channel
partners, and then you enter them.

That's the best strategy.

Stefan: I mean that
sounds like solid advice.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

Thank you for this podcast, Dr.

Rashmi.

For for our listeners who want
to find you or maybe contact you

what's the best way to contact
you and where can they find you?

Dr. Rashmi: Yeah, they can
contact me on LinkedIn.

I'll be as and when time is
available, I'll be able to answer

any queries or any information they
need in terms of the Indian market

or in terms of Pharma in general.

And Stefan, it was equally very nice
speaking with you since you have done

so much of work in pharma marketing.

It's like speaking to another colleague
who knows the market, who knows

the pain point, and who knows the
dynamics which goes in these markets.

So thank you so much for having me here.

Stefan: Thank you very much.

I'm blushing right now.

You can see that because of the red light,
but yeah, I'm doing my best to basically

stay with updated with the newest trends
and basically do a lot of advocacy for

the best practices in the industry.

So that's what we're doing
with the podcast as well.

Thank you, doctor.

And I wish you a great day and,
you know much success in your

endeavors, in your journey.

Dr. Rashmi: See you Stefan.

Microsoft Mechanics