Everybody Hates Pharma

Welcome to the Pharma
Sales and Tech Podcast.

Join Artem Stefan, Ruslan and Chris as we
explore the latest trends and developments

in the pharmaceutical industry with
a focus on sales and technologies

from cutting edge innovations.

To practical tips and strategies,
our expert guests will provide

valuable insights to help
you stay ahead of the game.

Tune in to stay informed, inspired and
connected with the world of pharma sales.

Stefan Repin: Hello ladies and gentlemen.

So here's Stefan from Platforce
and we have our usual episode of

the Pharma Sales and Tech podcast.

And today we have a guest from
all the way from Singapore.

His name is Sushil Katdare.

He works for GSK Pharma.

And obviously he's here because he has
a lot of knowledge he can share with us.

Welcoming our guest and I think
Sushil can do his own intro because

he'll do it much better than I do.

Welcome.

Sushil Katdare: Thank you so much
Stefan and wonderful to speak

with you and audio audience.

My name is Sushil Katdare.

I am working now with pharma
Industry for almost 22 years.

I'm a chartered marketer and
a microbiologist and would

like to call myself a health
sales and marketing leader.

Who has been very fortunate
to work in multiple global,

regional and country experiences.

One interesting thing about me, I take
a lot of pride in saying that you name

a sub-domain within healthcare from
pharmaceuticals, vaccines, consumer

health, medical devices, diagnostics,
or even healthcare advertising.

I was fortunate to get opportunities
and learn from those ones.

Stefan Repin: Oh wow.

That's awesome.

Okay, cool.

Nice to hear that.

So tell us more about like your role at
gss at your current role about in at GSK.

Sushil Katdare: Thank you.

So my current role is working
as a CX director for GCI region.

So I will explain what it means.

CX is the customer experience.

And for us in GSK, GCI is a
region which is greater China and

Intercontinental as a market.

This is one of the most exciting
places right now in terms of the market

and also course as an organization.

And we are working currently on a lot of
exciting areas with technology, and my

well involved and also looking at things
such as You know, generative AI as well

as work, creating an impact and creating
a great experience for our customers to

ensure that there is a patient impact.

So that's in a nutshell of what I do.

Stefan Repin: Nice.

So would you say the customer experience,
like in my head, customer experience

is part of the sales experience?

Would you, would you agree with
that or disagree with that and why?

Sushil Katdare: Absolutely.

I think you're not incorrect in saying
that selling plays a very important role.

And it also depends on
how you look at selling.

If you're looking at selling as
a process, then definitely that

is the end result or an ideal end
result for every organization.

But for us, when we are looking at it, it
is a experience as a transaction as well.

And when you're working in pharmaceutical,
every transaction should lead to a

better impact on patients, better
impact on health of people, and

better impact on society in general.

So definitely selling is part of that.

Stefan Repin: Okay.

That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah.

In, in teams that I was before,
you know I worked in, in

companies outside Pharma as well.

The customers, so when you create like
a go-to market strategy and entry entry

market strategy, actually usually the
product, the product team the customers

success customer experience team.

Sales and marketing, they all form
sort of a team like the, A team, right?

When you, which will define
the strategy when you go into a

new market or you go with a new
pharma product into a new market.

And that's why I'm saying, and
CSM actually CSM sales is job is

like, you know, get onboard new
customers and get new customers and

like sort of like start the track.

But CSM is eventually and, like if
the experience is not there, that

white glove experience, that great
experience they can give customers,

then they will leave eventually.

And I think the role of customer
experience is way, way underrated.

Like it's very underrated.

So I think with great customer experience,
you can actually win deals, you know,

no matter like sales being there or not.

But that's my personal opinion, you know?

Sushil Katdare: No.

Absolutely.

And I think Stefan, you really put a
very important point there that you

know, the, our sales colleague in
general, and I'm not just talking about

our organization, but across the pharma
industry, They have a very important

function, very important job, and that
is to ensure that the transaction,

whether it is related to promotion,
whether it is related to selling is

creating a good experience for the HCP.

And when we say good experience, what
it actually means is giving the right

information for the right product to
ensure that the right patient is getting

the right medication at the right time.

And therefore for me as a team, as a
function plays a very important role.

And I think since you, with your own
experience, you must have seen it right

from looking at go to market models.

When you're looking at the strategy
or even looking at implementation

or when you're looking at after the
implementation, how the results have

been you would always see that it
finally boils down to only two things.

Have we created an impact?

And then, and when you measure an
impact, there are only two ways.

One is how many patients' life you
have impacted and how positive the

experience has been for your customers.

Stefan Repin: Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Cool.

Great to hear that.

What would you before, in your previous
role, you've been doing sales, right?

So do you have any like maybe
examples of like sales strategy or

go-to-market strategies that you've
helped orchestrate in the past?

Sushil Katdare: Absolutely.

So I will talk about a strategy
related to one of the vaccines in one

of my you know, previous assignments.

And this is a great, great
assignment because when you,

I love working on vaccines.

It's a great area to be in
because you really can see the

impact on you know, patients.

And I think the world has seen
pretty recently how the world may

look like without vaccines at the
beginning of the last epidemic

that we faced as a, as a humanity.

So this experience of sales was
related to a new launch of a vaccine.

I'm not gonna share the name of the
organization or the product, but if

you're looking at a vaccine that is a
world's first vaccine for a disease,

Which has a very low awareness
then you really need to come up

with a very unique market strategy.

And our strategy involve not just working
on increasing the awareness, the risks,

and the impact related communication,
but it also involved talking to the

right customers at the right time.

And the part of that was actually
one, ensuring that our sales team is

not talking about the product first.

For almost the first two to three
calls, our whole idea was to ensure

that we talk about the disease.

We talk about how much
impact it it creates.

And when you're working on a disease which
is normally neglected, such as malaria

or dengue then typically people know
about the disease, but they do not know

the solution or they do not have that
perception of severity about the disease.

So I think the whole idea was to first
ensure that our sales teams are capable.

So we worked with some great people
in that organization to ensure that

our sales teams are properly trained.

But also the tactical aspect of this
was talking to the doctors only about

the dreadful nature of the disease and
ensuring that they understand, one,

that this disease is really serious.

Number two, other than the ways in which
currently the disease is managed, there is

actually now a solution that they can use.

And the third part is working
on this solution is meant for

very specific patient population
of very specific audience.

So how do you identify that patient?

How do you identify that patient?

Other type of messages
that we looked at it.

So right from segmentation, targeting
right up to the actual delivery of the

message, everything was you know, planned
in such a way that we are taking our HCPs

on a journey from being not aware to at
least aware, then being concerned, then

being a trialist of our product, and then
ultimately becoming a regular prescriber

with the right patient population.

So we are very happy and in the end
we are very happy to see that, you

know, it started showing the impact.

If you are looking at the prescriptions,
if you're looking at even the awareness

levels in the launch trackers we could
see that there was a positive impact.

So I take a lot of satisfaction out of
this assignment that with the help of

our sales colleagues, we could actually.

Create an impact in this market
for this dreadful disease.

Stefan Repin: That's a good,
this is a very good point.

I would say my, because my next, I
was reflecting on the, you know, usage

of data and analytics in, you know,
when driving once sales performance,

and I was thinking in this particular
example, you have a very good example.

How do you use like data and analytics
to like, to drive your decisions, right?

Sushil Katdare: And I think it's a
wonderful question, Stefan, because

I would say if you do not use data,
then you're shooting it in the dark.

And let's take a look at any
business plan, brand plan,

or a sales execution plan.

I would roughly divide it into
four stages insights generation,

planning, execution, and monitoring.

And I would say data is needed at
every single stage, especially more

important at the beginning stage.

And of course, as you know, when you're
looking at data, you're looking at

inside data, outside data that there's
audit data available from you know,

different providers for you to look at it.

So finding the right data is really very
important when you're looking at it.

But most importantly, we also
now live in a information jungle.

So with years of experience
that you spend in the industry.

A skillset starts getting developed, which
is to find out the right data as I think

you must have heard this saying, right?

That every indicator is not key indicator.

So finding out exactly which KPIs we
need to look at it for, our performance

exactly which areas we need to focus
on and exactly which data sets that we

need to look at it is I think the most
important part when you're looking at it.

But at the same time, I should say
in the end that we live in the age

where there is an explosion of data.

But at the same time, there are so many
wonderful tools that are available that

I would encourage everyone to explore
related to predictive data analysis

as well as seeing the customer trend.

If you are a sales colleague, I would
recommend you to not just look at data

as something that is rocket science,
but starts from the simple steps, like,

identify what are your customer trends.

What is it that you think therefore
should be your prescription pattern,

and what should be your action to
ensure that you are creating an impact?

Stefan Repin: To this I've had
already many interviews and I can

say with 100% certainty that AI,
everyone is so afraid in the pharma.

About, you know, like where AI is
coming and we'll lose our jobs.

It's very like, not necessarily you
need to use ChatGPT, but you can

use tools which are built based on
ChatGPT, where you don't sort of

like where your private data will
not flow into into the public pool.

I think you can use that.

You can use these AI tools to basically
give you the patterns and tell, show

you trends, which will make your
sales activity way more predictable.

But I will, I wanna say something about,
I have a question actually for you.

Sushil Katdare: Mm-hmm.

Stefan Repin: in your current role in
customer experience, customer success,

what, and it's very highly regulated
industry, like what KPIs do you use and

do you use any, like what's your approach?

Do use any tools, like
how do you use them?

You know, I want our audience
to like learn from the best.

Sushil Katdare: Absolutely.

So if you're looking at my role or my
teams, our teams in my organization, how

we look at KPIs as a topic definitely The
whole decision is to be driven by data.

The way in which we are looking at
creating an impact, the process is

called DDCX which actually means
data driven customer experience.

So you can see the first two
words are related to the data

and then we are looking at it.

It's important that you know, you
are creating a good CX or a good

customer experience that should
result in a right patient impact.

So doing it in a right
way is equally important.

And therefore, if you're looking at it,
I would say a typical ways in which you

would look at it, whether it is lack KPIs
or the lead KPIs is one way to do it.

But also what is really
important is you know, what data

sources that you're using it.

We use third party data.

We use data, which is you know,
used in a very ethical manner.

There are some strict rules and
regulations in terms of how do you

process the data, personal data.

And we are, and as a we know
responsible organization, we are

always comply to the local rules and
regulations related to this topic.

But in the end you know, we
understand this part that.

We are there to understand the
data and not the other way out.

We shouldn't become the slaves
of the process, but mostly we

should take the decision basis.

This, and it is also connected
to your previous question

Stefan and that, you know, would

AI come and take the jobs.

I would say it's understandable.

It's a human nature to
feel fearful about unknown.

When the electricity was invented,
when internet was invented, or

when automobiles were invented.

We did feel fearful about these changes,
but we need to embrace the changes with

the right mindset is very important.

So if you're asking the data sources,
we use a lot of external data sources.

From prescription audits as
well as the customer behavior.

And when we take our own
efforts, we measure our own

efforts as well as the data.

How many emails have been sent?

How many touch points have been
you know, executed and in the

end, what is the impact of that?

A correlation between your lag and lead
is very important for you to know what

is working, what is not, so that you
can continuously refine your strategies

to ensure that you're creating a right
type of engagement giving a superior

customer experience than your competitors.

But most importantly, it is giving you
you know, the right patient impact.

At the end of the day, in pharma
industry, we are all there to create

an impact in the patient's life.

So measurement of that is,
I think, the most important

criteria when it comes to data.

Stefan Repin: Okay.

So yeah, data is important, but it's also
important to follow your gut instinct.

That's what I'm saying, because well,
because data gives you well, any sort

of an analysis you'll do with any AI.

It will show you patterns, but
it's important to understand

that it's also historical.

These are all historical values.

So there it is based on the values you had
in the past and nobody knows the future.

So it's also important as a,
you are a scientist, right?

So you're a scientist and a salesperson.

So I guess you understand that
as a researcher, sometimes you

have to go beyond the data.

Yeah.

Sushil Katdare: No.

And I think that's the best thing
that you know, that I would always

tell that to anybody who says that,
can the technology replaces me?

Because you had exactly
answered that part that.

There is a data, but you would
need a human, you would need a

human to take that leap of faith.

You need a human to understand whether
I'm doing the right thing or not.

You need a human to come up with the
creative solutions you know, that will

actually address the customer need.

So absolutely.

I feel you know, aligned
with what you just mentioned.

Stefan Repin: Okay.

Makes a lot of sense.

Okay, so let's talk about
like some challenges.

What were the maybe.

Maybe you wanna talk about what challenges
did you have in your customer, what

challenges do you see for yourself in
your previous role or your existing role,

like as you know, in customer success, and
maybe how you overcame those challenges.

Maybe you could show some specifics.

Tell us about some specific challenges.

That would be great.

Sushil Katdare: Absolutely.

And because most of our audiences
are coming from sales and marketing

experience, I will share some
of my previous experiences.

So when you're looking at sales
as a process, one, it's not a very

easy you know, place to be in.

It requires a lot of efforts.

But at the same time, you
are working on your own many

times you know, in the field.

And when you're in that place of a
small failure, like, you know, not

meeting your sales target, not being
able to meet your engagement targets

rejection by your customers or sometimes
whatever you're communicating or

promoting about your brands you are
not seeing a desired behavioral change.

I think all of us go through
this, these type of failures.

But I think there are also
ways of looking at that.

Number one thing that always look at it
is failure is a step towards success.

You know, sometimes things related to
endurance, not giving up continuously

trying are some of the things that will
help when you have a positive attitude.

So, when I personally gonna look at
failures, I think it is very important

for me to maintain that positive attitude.

Also when you're looking at someone
else who will come to me asking for

help, I would say there are a lot of
professional development resources

that are available to find out exactly
what is it that I'm still not doing

it, or what is it that I still need
to do to ensure that I meet them.

At the end of the day, I would say
there is a Sanskrit saying, which

roughly translate in English that.

I should do my duty you know, and worry
about the results later till the time.

And this is, I think, very valid, very
important when you work in industries

such as pharma industries, that you know
that you are doing a right job till the

time you're promoting the right product to
the right customer for the right patient.

And you're doing it because you know
that you're working for that patient.

Yes, sometimes you will get that failure.

Sometimes you'll meet that
failure but then never give up.

At the end, think about that patient whose
life you gonna change with your positive

attitude and with your never die attitude.

And sometimes I have seen personally that
has kept me going for four days, even if

I haven't seen success for a few days.

This is something that
has really been helpful.

So I would say mindset is really very
important when you're dealing in cases.

But also what is important is.

Are we able to identify
the actual problem?

Are we able to work on it?

Can we measure the before and after
to know whether my solution has really

helped in addressing my failure so that
my path towards success you know, I'm

on that path and I'm walking towards it.

Stefan Repin: Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So in your team, right, like how do you
in your existing team or in your past

team when you had doing sales, right?

How do you like, ensure productivity
and efficiency on your team when you

know when the numbers are lacking.

Like, do you have any methods?

Anything you do.

Sushil Katdare: So I would say
whenever you're looking at performance,

according to me, performance is you
know, is the function of three things.

Number one, your own product knowledge.

Number two, skill sets that you have,
and number three, your own attitude.

So my way of leadership of my opinion,
which I work with my colleagues, and not

just sales, but most of my colleagues,
is I focus on these three areas.

Am I equipped, do I know the
products that I'm selling?

Do I have enough product knowledge
on the products that I'm looking at?

Second part is do I have the skillset?

Do I know how to open my calls?

If I'm a sales know trainer, do I know can
I train my sales team to ensure that there

is an effective closing of the calls?

What are the newer methods by which
I could engage with my customer?

How do I engage using omnichannel methods
so that I increase my efficiency, increase

my impact dealing with my customers?

And then of course the last
part is, you know, attitude.

Do I have that endurance?

Do I have that never say die attitude?

Do I have that ambition for my
own patients, that I want this

medicine you know, for my patients?

Do I have that attitude
is all what matters.

So when I'm developing or having
those discussions, developmental

discussions with my members,
I focus on these behaviors.

I have worked in marketing,
I've worked in sales, business

development, commercial excellence.

And I would say largely this approach
has been very beneficial for me know,

training, developing my own teams, but
also addressing their own development

needs which are very specific basis,
the roles basis an individual.

But I think overall I would
recommend this update.

Stefan Repin: Okay.

Awesome.

So in regards to like, you know, we spoke
about AI, we spoke about, I actually

have like one or two more questions.

So when we speak about like AI,
we speak about like new tools.

First of all, how do
you check for new tools?

Like how do you look for new tools
and new sales technologies methods?

Or, but in your case, it's
like customer experience.

How do they learn and how do you
like, choose and, you know, what's

your adoption curve in the company?

How do they, how does your team adapt
to these you know, new tools and

new technologies and new methods?

Like maybe you have a trick how to, you
know, a scale adoption in the company.

Sushil Katdare: Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

So first part is how do I look at it?

I would say I'm generally
a very curious person.

I'm very enthusiastic
about new technology.

I love to read.

And so I also believe in networking.

I love reaching out to
people, ask them questions.

How do you do things
that I don't understand?

So I would say staying curious helps.

And of course I dedicate some
time like, mostly on Fridays.

I dedicate like one hour just for my
general reading so that I understand

what's happening in my industry,
my newer trends, newer technology.

The second question related to innovation
of an an organizational aptitude.

For that, I would say GSK is a
fairly innovative organization.

We have a very high appetite for that.

But at the same time, I would also say
that it's, it's equally important when

you're working in organizations that
you know, whatever new innovations

that you're looking at it, look at
it from the lenses of is it really

adding a value to the patients?

Number two, is it a right thing to do?

There might be newer and easier and
shortcut tools that may be available.

But not all of them would comply
with the guidelines such as

data safety or patient safety.

And therefore it's important and even I
would say more important in an industry

like ours to ensure that anything
that you try should go through these

filters to ensure that you know you
are doing the right thing all the time.

My organization, I'm incredibly
lucky to work for an organization

where, Innovation is not just
encouraged, but it is celebrated.

We believe in creating you
know, minimum viable products or

pilots for newer technologies.

So today there are a lot of cutting
edge tools and technology discussions

that are happening in my organization
where we are talking about not just.

The tools and solutions for today,
but also how the pharma industry

may look after five years, 10 years.

Are we ready for those areas and what
is it that we should start doing it

now so that we continue to you know,
create that impact for our patients?

Stefan Repin: Mm-hmm.

Cool.

Yeah, I would agree with you on these
things that you have to stay curious

about new tools and new methodologies.

'cause there's always,
you know, the new thing.

But you shouldn't be
blinded by the new thing.

It has to be useful.

So, often I see.

The adoption curve starting like this,
and then it goes like this going down.

People don't adopt the tool because
it's, at the end of the day,

it's behavior that you need to
change with the new methodology.

And people are very resistant
in to change, very resistant

to changing their behavior.

I have a like, sort of a one question.

So are you guys sort customer experience
maybe, you know, when your company does

customer support, are you guys using any
AI or are you planning to use any AI?

Because I've seen a few pharma
companies like smaller ones, they've

implemented some sort of ChatGPT with
their own ChatGPT in-house built for

like customer support and success.

And it's built them and it's rhythms.

Like some good numbers, some good results.

Like are you guys planning to do that?

Maybe you saw anything in the industry?

Sushil Katdare: I would say not just
my organization, I think the entire

pharma industry is looking at you know,
the newer AI tools and how can they

be utilized in a compliant manner.

To give you an example one of
my previous organization where I

worked with they have launched a
ChatGPT for their internal audience.

Now imagine we often that, you
know, there are external audiences.

For whom we need to work on.

But these big companies have
more than a hundred thousand,

80,000 employees at times.

They need ChatGPT to just ask
simple question, Hey, where am

where is my salary coming in?

Or when can I find my salary slip?

Or how do I apply for relief?

Now for these questions, many times
you will either be lost in the big

organizations or sometimes you just do
not know where to find this information.

So companies are starting you
know, in these areas to look at it.

Also looking at, you know, areas
like generative as, I mean,

imagine a product is launched.

There are multiple indications in
different countries, and every country

has its own rules and regulations.

What you can promote, what you cannot.

But imagine you feeding
these things in the system.

You are able to generate, you
know, for newer material, newer

promotional material in seconds.

Of course you would always needed to
ensure that you know you're doing a

right job because you don't want in
our industry, you don't want people

to you know, suffer because of wrong
medication or wrong ways in which

an information is communicated.

So that's the only area where I would
say every organization needs to be

careful and I hope every organization
like ours are careful in these areas.

Stefan Repin: Okay, cool.

Okay.

My last question would be as someone
who is a seasoned leader in the pharma

and industry, what would be your advice
to newly starting leaders in let's

say in sales and in customer success?

Customer engagement.

Sushil Katdare: So I would say two things.

I have two mantras for the new leaders.

One, stay informed.

Number two, stay grounded, stay informed
because lot of new things are coming

up our way, but that's how it has
always been in the pharma industry.

There's always something new
that is around the corner.

So it is important to stay abreast
of the newer technologies, newer

trends related to the newer therapies,
as well as these technological

advancements that are happening but at
the same time, stay grounded as well.

And that means even though there will be
technology will be, there will be newer

things that will be coming in the basics
of humanity will not change if as a

salesperson I need to create an impact.

I need to be impactful
in my communication.

I need to have the
right knowledge with me.

These basics will never go away.

The purpose of an A person
is, is really very important.

So if you have a purpose to
be in this industry, then

that is also staying grounded.

So I think these are the two most
important things for anybody to be

successful, staying informed and staying
grounded because these are the two things

that we help you to create an impact.

For your own personal growth as well as
you know, for your organization as well.

Stefan Repin: Okay.

Makes a lot of sense.

Sushil, thank you so
much for this episode.

To our audience, we are going to hear
more from Sushil because I think he's a

great work guest and we'll sit down next
year about the new episode with Sushil.

Maybe in the new role.

Who knows?

Because this guy is very talented
as you guys, as you could hear that.

And he can take any challenge, be
on marketing, sales, or customer

engagement, customer success.

So thank you so much for your wisdom.

It was my pleasure.

Sushil Katdare: Wonderful.

Thank you so much for inviting
me and thank you so much.

All the very best for the
show and to all your audience.

Have a

Stefan Repin: great day.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sushil Katdare: Bye.